Embassy of the United States in Manila

Transcript of Chargé d’Affaires Joseph Mussomeli’s interview
on ANC 21’s “Dateline Philippines,” with Ricky Carandang
July 8, 2005

Ricky: U.S. Chargé d’Affaires Joseph Mussomeli joins us in the studio. Mr. Mussomeli, nice to see you again.

CDA: Good to see you, Ricky.

Ricky: Congratulations by the way. I understand you have been confirmed as the Ambassador to Cambodia. On your way out, I guess you’re going to have a pretty exciting few weeks. Sir, last time you were here, the tape had just come out and you had said that you would, of course, continue to support the democratically elected government of this country. Has there been any change or any variation in your position since all these events, particularly what happened this morning?

CDA: Certainly a lot of things have happened in the last three or four weeks. And I predict that in the next few weeks more things will happen. Our policy though is pretty steadfast and clear. We are supporting the rule of law and the Constitution. In so far as anything that goes beyond the Constitution, the U.S. Government will firmly oppose – and that means all sorts of things. That means a military coup. That means the imposition of martial law. That means people power in the streets. Anything that will weaken the institutions that we genuinely believe are the true safeguard for your own liberty and welfare are also against our own interests, and we will do our best to oppose any such actions.

Ricky: Can you categorically tell us right now, sir, that the United States Government supports the administration of Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo?

CDA: I could categorically tell you that we support the rule of law. Within that context, we believe that the President is still the President, obviously. That it is within her legal rights to remove her cabinet; her Cabinet is hers to do with as she pleases, but that doesn’t mean we’re not disappointed in that. It doesn’t mean that we’re not worried; this is something that distracts from the reforms that she was committed to and we hope is still committed to. You know, I know many of he Cabinet members who have resigned now, and the ones that I know are all very decent, and good people, patriots -- people who are concerned for the welfare of the Filipino people. So, it is a worrisome thing, but it is certainly within her rights.

Ricky: Do you agree with the characterization of some of the President’s allies that these cabinet members who spoke this morning are “adventurous?”

CDA: No, I couldn’t agree with that. I know some of them very well, and the ones I know, frankly, have accepted these posts as an act of patriotism and are concerned for the welfare of the people. They could make a lot more money and have a lot more prestigious roles in the private sector, but they have chosen to be in the Cabinet.

Ricky: You say that you support the democratic process. If the democratic process led to the President’s resignation, or if the democratic process led to an impeachment of the President, is that something that you would have a problem with?

CDA: You know, really it is up to the Filipino people to decide what is best for them. I would only say, and maybe I’m getting too personal on this, and I shouldn’t as a diplomat, but it seems that the focus on both sides is too much on either retaining power or attaining power, and not enough focus on the Filipino people and what is best for them. I think if both sides or all sides – there’s more than two sides to this – would focus more on and discern better what is best for the people, they would be able to resolve this.

Ricky: Do you think as a result of this ongoing political crisis that the administration may have lost some of its focus on those things that you deem are important?

CDA: That’s exactly why we’re disappointed, yes. We believe there has been a loss of emphasis and a loss of focus on economic reform, on the fight against corruption, on reforming the Armed Forces, and all of that as I had warned several weeks this would distract from.

Ricky: Has there been any – well, the reason I’m going to ask you a set of questions that pertain…

CDA: That are obnoxious? (Laughter)

Ricky: I wouldn’t do that to you.

CDA: Yes.

Ricky: …that pertain to reports, widespread speculation that the United States may have had some involvement on this. If you recall when the tapes first came out, Secretary Bunye himself said that there were reports that the Americans had something to do with it, and of course you said that you had nothing do with it.

CDA: Right, and that was actually proven true.

Ricky: Yes. Is there any – have you spoken to any of the major players in this ongoing drama, whether it be from the opposition or from Malacañang, or even people on either side of the fence – people on the administration side – who may be at this point considering jumping ship?

CDA: We speak to them all across the whole broad political spectrum, and the NGO community, and the church and everywhere else, the business community, yes, that’s our job.

Ricky: And you have spoken to a broad spectrum of people? Is there a consensus to you based on people you’ve talked to? Is there a consensus about how this situation should end? Do most of them feel that the President should stay on and that this is an unfair accusation against her? Do many feel that she should resign?

CDA: You know, I wish I had kept a tally. The only thing that I could tell you is that there is a broad deep consensus of worry for the Filipino people and the desire to somehow resolve this in a constitutional way. There are very few people we talked to who want to go beyond the Constitution or what is legally appropriate.

Ricky: If somebody tried to do something that were unconstitutional. As you said, you will support whatever happens, as long as it’s constitutional. If someone came in and tried do something unconstitutional, would the United States just sit back and let it happen, or would you be constrained to intervene somehow either politically or militarily, or diplomatically…?

CDA: Certainly, we would not interfere militarily or in any way such as that. That is not our role here. But certainly it is our role as a friend of the Filipino people to express our disagreement with and opposition to anything that would infringe on their freedom, and we would publicly and forcefully denounce it.

Ricky: Clearly, political instability is not in American interest as well, and it’s obviously…

CDA: …yeah, it’s really pretty selfish of us…

Ricky: …and it’s not in your interest as well, right. But how important is it that this gets resolved right away as far as American interests, strategic interests in Southeast Asia are concerned?

CDA: You know, I have to say after working on Philippine issues for 21 years, I think the Filipino people have a real genius for resolving these things in their own due time. I would hate to push them to an American timetable of the next 20 minutes. I think over the next few weeks or the next few days, the Filipino people and the Filipino leaders from both the opposition and the government will find a way to resolve this.

Ricky: Are you in your own way going to encourage a constitutional resolution to all of this?

CDA: We are encouraging that constitutionally. You’re asking me what it is?

No. We don’t have a specific agenda. We really don’t. We just want it to be peaceful and legal, and the rest is up to the Filipino people.

(Break to news)

CDA: You’re stuck with me.

Ricky: And you’re stuck with more questions. (Laughter) All right. President Arroyo, apparently, if the Malacañang media is to be believed…she is in a good mood with the loyal Arroyo Cabinet. This clearly is a crisis of growing proportions, and…

CDA: …and they’re all loyal by the way. They’re all loyal Filipinos.

Ricky: Yes, but I think what they mean is loyal to the President.

CDA: Okay. I thought you were being snide about it.

Ricky: I wouldn’t do that. (Laughter)

Anyway, what we’re we talking about. We were talking about constitutional change. You were saying that you would support whatever it is as long as it is constitutional. You’ve been talking to different people. They’ve made their views known to you. I was asking you about whether or not you expect American interests in Southeast Asia to be adversely affected by what’s going on here.

CDA: Yes. You know, this is a fluid situation. This is a crisis situation now, and the Filipino people and their leaders have to be very careful how they move and what they do. But, to repeat, in my 21 years of experience, the Filipino people have a way of resolving these things peacefully, and in a way that allows them to move on.

Ricky: Do you think that the international community would share your sentiments that if there were a coup or something like that that the international community would probably not recognize a government that came in through a coup or some extra-constitutional method?

CDA: I don’t think I could speak for the entire international community, but my hunch would be that, yes, that democracies, certainly the western democracies, would oppose any extra-constitutional or any extraordinary measure.

Ricky: It’s known, of course, that in 1986 when President Marcos was on his last legs that a timely intervention by the United States Government basically led to a peaceful resolution that was faced in 1986. I’m sure…

CDA: I was here.

Ricky: You were here. You remember what happened. There was a fear that if the situation was allowed to continue, that people could get killed, and it could get violent. Senator Laxalt, I think, sent a message from President Reagan to President Marcos with the very famous words that “it is time to cut, and cut cleanly.” If the situation here begins to deteriorate to the point where people you trust – their analysis is that it could get extra-constitutional, it could get violent, and they ask the United States Government to intervene in the same way to prevent something extra constitutional, would the United States Government be prepared to take the same action?

CDA: You know, this is not the same time. This is a different age completely, and the relationship I hope between the Philippines and the United States is much more mature than it was back then. And I’m still very hopeful that any sort of direct intercession by the United States at any level will not be necessary. I would hate to speculate on such a hypothetical…

Ricky: But if it is?

CDA: We are certainly friends of the Philippines and given whatever the circumstances might be, I would go back to Washington with my best recommendation. But I would want to wait to see what the actual circumstances are.

Ricky: Okay. But that’s not something you will completely rule out at this point.

CDA: I would not rule anything that would save lives or help the Filipino people. No.

Ricky: All right. Well on that note, unless you have anything else to say.

CDA: No. I’ve seen you long enough, I’m ready to leave. (Laughter)

Ricky. All right. Chargé d’Affaires Joseph Mussomeli. Sir, it is always a pleasure to have you. Congratulations again on your appointment as Ambassador to Cambodia, and good luck to you, and I’m sure we’re going to make your last few months in this country very interesting.

CDA: Last few weeks. I leave August 6, and I really don’t want to come back [to the ANC studios]. It’s too long a trip. This is the last time you’ll see me.

Ricky: Maybe on this show. Mr. Ambassador, thank you again.

CDA: Okay, Ricky.

Ricky: Thank you very much. Chargé d’Affaires Joseph Mussomeli there.

*****


Transcript of Chargé d’Affaires Joseph Mussomeli’s interview on ANC 21’s “Dateline Philippines,” with Ricky Carandang July 8, 2005 Ricky: U.S. Chargé d’Affaires Joseph Mussomeli joins us in the studio. Mr. Mussomeli, nice to see you again. CDA: Good to see you, Ricky. Ricky: Congratulations by the way. I understand you have been confirmed as the Ambassador to Cambodia. On your way out, I guess you’re going to have a pretty exciting few weeks. Sir, last time you were here, the tape had just come out and you had said that you would, of course, continue to support the democratically elected government of this country. Has there been any change or any variation in your position since all these events, particularly what happened this morning? CDA: Certainly a lot of things have happened in the last three or four weeks. And I predict that in the next few weeks more things will happen. Our policy though is pretty steadfast and clear. We are supporting the rule of law and the Constitution. In so far as anything that goes beyond the Constitution, the U.S. Government will firmly oppose – and that means all sorts of things. That means a military coup. That means the imposition of martial law. That means people power in the streets. Anything that will weaken the institutions that we genuinely believe are the true safeguard for your own liberty and welfare are also against our own interests, and we will do our best to oppose any such actions. Ricky: Can you categorically tell us right now, sir, that the United States Government supports the administration of Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo? CDA: I could categorically tell you that we support the rule of law. Within that context, we believe that the President is still the President, obviously. That it is within her legal rights to remove her cabinet; her Cabinet is hers to do with as she pleases, but that doesn’t mean we’re not disappointed in that. It doesn’t mean that we’re not worried; this is something that distracts from the reforms that she was committed to and we hope is still committed to. You know, I know many of he Cabinet members who have resigned now, and the ones that I know are all very decent, and good people, patriots -- people who are concerned for the welfare of the Filipino people. So, it is a worrisome thing, but it is certainly within her rights. Ricky: Do you agree with the characterization of some of the President’s allies that these cabinet members who spoke this morning are “adventurous?” CDA: No, I couldn’t agree with that. I know some of them very well, and the ones I know, frankly, have accepted these posts as an act of patriotism and are concerned for the welfare of the people. They could make a lot more money and have a lot more prestigious roles in the private sector, but they have chosen to be in the Cabinet. Ricky: You say that you support the democratic process. If the democratic process led to the President’s resignation, or if the democratic process led to an impeachment of the President, is that something that you would have a problem with? CDA: You know, really it is up to the Filipino people to decide what is best for them. I would only say, and maybe I’m getting too personal on this, and I shouldn’t as a diplomat, but it seems that the focus on both sides is too much on either retaining power or attaining power, and not enough focus on the Filipino people and what is best for them. I think if both sides or all sides – there’s more than two sides to this – would focus more on and discern better what is best for the people, they would be able to resolve this. Ricky: Do you think as a result of this ongoing political crisis that the administration may have lost some of its focus on those things that you deem are important? CDA: That’s exactly why we’re disappointed, yes. We believe there has been a loss of emphasis and a loss of focus on economic reform, on the fight against corruption, on reforming the Armed Forces, and all of that as I had warned several weeks this would distract from. Ricky: Has there been any – well, the reason I’m going to ask you a set of questions that pertain… CDA: That are obnoxious? (Laughter) Ricky: I wouldn’t do that to you. CDA: Yes. Ricky: …that pertain to reports, widespread speculation that the United States may have had some involvement on this. If you recall when the tapes first came out, Secretary Bunye himself said that there were reports that the Americans had something to do with it, and of course you said that you had nothing do with it. CDA: Right, and that was actually proven true. Ricky: Yes. Is there any – have you spoken to any of the major players in this ongoing drama, whether it be from the opposition or from Malacañang, or even people on either side of the fence – people on the administration side – who may be at this point considering jumping ship? CDA: We speak to them all across the whole broad political spectrum, and the NGO community, and the church and everywhere else, the business community, yes, that’s our job. Ricky: And you have spoken to a broad spectrum of people? Is there a consensus to you based on people you’ve talked to? Is there a consensus about how this situation should end? Do most of them feel that the President should stay on and that this is an unfair accusation against her? Do many feel that she should resign? CDA: You know, I wish I had kept a tally. The only thing that I could tell you is that there is a broad deep consensus of worry for the Filipino people and the desire to somehow resolve this in a constitutional way. There are very few people we talked to who want to go beyond the Constitution or what is legally appropriate. Ricky: If somebody tried to do something that were unconstitutional. As you said, you will support whatever happens, as long as it’s constitutional. If someone came in and tried do something unconstitutional, would the United States just sit back and let it happen, or would you be constrained to intervene somehow either politically or militarily, or diplomatically…? CDA: Certainly, we would not interfere militarily or in any way such as that. That is not our role here. But certainly it is our role as a friend of the Filipino people to express our disagreement with and opposition to anything that would infringe on their freedom, and we would publicly and forcefully denounce it. Ricky: Clearly, political instability is not in American interest as well, and it’s obviously… CDA: …yeah, it’s really pretty selfish of us… Ricky: …and it’s not in your interest as well, right. But how important is it that this gets resolved right away as far as American interests, strategic interests in Southeast Asia are concerned? CDA: You know, I have to say after working on Philippine issues for 21 years, I think the Filipino people have a real genius for resolving these things in their own due time. I would hate to push them to an American timetable of the next 20 minutes. I think over the next few weeks or the next few days, the Filipino people and the Filipino leaders from both the opposition and the government will find a way to resolve this. Ricky: Are you in your own way going to encourage a constitutional resolution to all of this? CDA: We are encouraging that constitutionally. You’re asking me what it is? No. We don’t have a specific agenda. We really don’t. We just want it to be peaceful and legal, and the rest is up to the Filipino people. (Break to news) CDA: You’re stuck with me. Ricky: And you’re stuck with more questions. (Laughter) All right. President Arroyo, apparently, if the Malacañang media is to be believed…she is in a good mood with the loyal Arroyo Cabinet. This clearly is a crisis of growing proportions, and… CDA: …and they’re all loyal by the way. They’re all loyal Filipinos. Ricky: Yes, but I think what they mean is loyal to the President. CDA: Okay. I thought you were being snide about it. Ricky: I wouldn’t do that. (Laughter) Anyway, what we’re we talking about. We were talking about constitutional change. You were saying that you would support whatever it is as long as it is constitutional. You’ve been talking to different people. They’ve made their views known to you. I was asking you about whether or not you expect American interests in Southeast Asia to be adversely affected by what’s going on here. CDA: Yes. You know, this is a fluid situation. This is a crisis situation now, and the Filipino people and their leaders have to be very careful how they move and what they do. But, to repeat, in my 21 years of experience, the Filipino people have a way of resolving these things peacefully, and in a way that allows them to move on. Ricky: Do you think that the international community would share your sentiments that if there were a coup or something like that that the international community would probably not recognize a government that came in through a coup or some extra-constitutional method? CDA: I don’t think I could speak for the entire international community, but my hunch would be that, yes, that democracies, certainly the western democracies, would oppose any extra-constitutional or any extraordinary measure. Ricky: It’s known, of course, that in 1986 when President Marcos was on his last legs that a timely intervention by the United States Government basically led to a peaceful resolution that was faced in 1986. I’m sure… CDA: I was here. Ricky: You were here. You remember what happened. There was a fear that if the situation was allowed to continue, that people could get killed, and it could get violent. Senator Laxalt, I think, sent a message from President Reagan to President Marcos with the very famous words that “it is time to cut, and cut cleanly.” If the situation here begins to deteriorate to the point where people you trust – their analysis is that it could get extra-constitutional, it could get violent, and they ask the United States Government to intervene in the same way to prevent something extra constitutional, would the United States Government be prepared to take the same action? CDA: You know, this is not the same time. This is a different age completely, and the relationship I hope between the Philippines and the United States is much more mature than it was back then. And I’m still very hopeful that any sort of direct intercession by the United States at any level will not be necessary. I would hate to speculate on such a hypothetical… Ricky: But if it is? CDA: We are certainly friends of the Philippines and given whatever the circumstances might be, I would go back to Washington with my best recommendation. But I would want to wait to see what the actual circumstances are. Ricky: Okay. But that’s not something you will completely rule out at this point. CDA: I would not rule anything that would save lives or help the Filipino people. No. Ricky: All right. Well on that note, unless you have anything else to say. CDA: No. I’ve seen you long enough, I’m ready to leave. (Laughter) Ricky. All right. Chargé d’Affaires Joseph Mussomeli. Sir, it is always a pleasure to have you. Congratulations again on your appointment as Ambassador to Cambodia, and good luck to you, and I’m sure we’re going to make your last few months in this country very interesting. CDA: Last few weeks. I leave August 6, and I really don’t want to come back [to the ANC studios]. It’s too long a trip. This is the last time you’ll see me. Ricky: Maybe on this show. Mr. Ambassador, thank you again. CDA: Okay, Ricky. Ricky: Thank you very much. Chargé d’Affaires Joseph Mussomeli there. *****
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