Transcript of Interview of
U.S. Ambassador Francis Ricciardone by
Jarius Bondoc and Dick Sinchonco
DWIZ, Jan. 12, 2005

RICCIARDONE: Magandang umaga po.

BONDOC: You have a ‘baon’ also for Tagalog!

RICCIARDONE: Only such basic phrases as that, I’m afraid.

BONDOC: What other Philippine languages are you able to speak now?

RICCIARDONE: Every time I go to Cebu, they teach me how to say that in Cebuano but I forget it every time in between.

BONDOC: I noticed from a story in the Inquirer that you have been looking at the political situation here and that you made a statement to the Inquirer that you will not recognize any extra constitutional means to de-stabilize the government?

RICCIARDONE: I’ve been so busy this morning I haven’t yet read that article. I was interviewed – I didn’t offer a statement. But in the course of the conversation, of course – when the people asked about the political situation here, I said we recognize the legitimate, constitutional Government of the Philippines. It should be beyond question. In our mind it’s beyond question and I think no foreign country has any questions about the constitutional processes here. I was asked – again I didn’t see the interview and I don’t know what they did – but the conversation was about the past year and the future of our relations. I pointed out that we’ve had this wonderful parallel in both of our countries. Our democratic processes have gone through a period of renewal. We’ve had our elections, you’ve had yours last year. In both cases there were lively debates and campaigns and the results were relatively close, but also clear. And the losing party in both countries has had to go back and lick its wounds and figure out how to have a better campaign next time and a strong candidate and how to appeal to the majority. That’s the way democracies are. There's nothing unstable about that or frightening about that –

BONDOC: Do you see that happening here?

RICCIARDONE: Yes. You had a good strong election here. You had an outcome. The losing parties are unhappy – the winning party is happy.

BONDOC: But the losing party licking its wounds and planning to do better the next time around- do you see that happening?

RICCIARDONE: Look- the responsible thing in a democracy when you lose an election is to figure out how to win the next one. I know there are people in the opposition are doing that in my country and they’re doing it in your country and that’s the way democracies are. There’s nothing frightening or worrisome in that.

BONDOC: But I’m sure you’ve heard, Mr. Ambassador, of the observation in Philippine politics that nobody loses in any election. They always say they were just cheated.

RICCIARDONE: Well, I would look on the bright side and say that in a democracy, nobody loses, period. The system always comes out stronger after an election. Now when you do lose, is when people try to go outside the Constitution and start darkly spreading rumors about coups or extra legal or extra constitutional means of changing the system. That does become worrisome, and it doesn’t do the country any credit. And of course in the Philippines that’s a favorite parlor sport – the rumor-mongering and so forth. We take this country as a stronger country, maybe, than many others do. We tend to have confidence that at the end of the day, the Philippines will pull through, and even do better than pull through. There’s no reason why this country can’t take off, I think, and get its act together and compete in the global economy and really be a wonderful place for all its citizens.
BONDOC: So you would say that all of this talk about destabilization and extra constitutional means to take over the government – all of these are just rumors?

RICCIARDONE: I don’t know. I’m a foreigner. But as a foreigner, I tend to look at what is real and what is here. And I see a government that is performing, that wants to do better. In any democracy, citizens demand a lot from the government and the government strives to meet these demands, and is constantly facing criticism. So we think things are pretty normal. I don’t see an unstable situation necessarily.

BONDOC: I’m sure you’re also following events in Mindanao because of US AID pouring into certain Muslim communities, and how do you assess the peace talks going on right now?

RICCIARDONE: We’re not directly in the peace talks. I do see Mindanao as a potential bright spot. Maybe it’s because I’m an inveterate optimist. We’ve come to learn a lot about the people of Mindanao, both the Christians and the Muslims there. We see a lot of interfaith dialogue going on. We see a lot of development work going on. We see people even in the MILF who want to continue what we think is a legitimate struggle for redressing historic grievances. We see some people who want to do that in the right, responsible and even promising political way. And we see others, who call themselves MILF, who train bombers, from outside, to plant bombs in market places. So we see terrorists who are associated with the MILF on the one hand, and we see others who seem to us potentially leading a historic cause in a way that is productive.

BONDOC: Are you in direct contact with these more responsible leaders of the MILF?

RICCIARDONE: I would say indirect touch. Indirect touch - and we’re a bit confused. We need to understand better what is the MILF. Are they the people who are welcoming bombers from the outside -- from the Jemaah Islamiya -- and training killers? And harboring killers, sheltering guys like Janjalani who are refugees from justice? Or are they people who want to build a better future for their children?

BONDOC: We Filipinos are as confused and we want to find out from them too.

RICCIARDONE: We do, too. And we haven’t made up our minds yet – I guess because we don’t understand the situation well enough. But meanwhile, in those communities in Mindanao where they want to increase educational opportunity and business opportunities and livelihood, USAID has rolled up its sleeves and worked with those community leaders. Next week we’re going to be having a ceremony down there to do another expansion of the educational opportunity.

BONDOC: I’ll be there with you.

RICCIARDONE: Very good.

BONDOC: Is this the one at Datu Paglas?

RICCIARDONE: It’s the one at Datu Paglas.

BONDOC: Okay. I’ll be seeing you there.

RICCIARDONE: And in fact on that very day, I won’t be there because I’ll be in Cebu with another private sector group – I’ll mention the name if I may – the Ayala Foundation, launching another big educational opportunity to computerize the schools throughout the Philippines and link them to the Internet.

BONDOC: That's great. You said something about businesses and livelihood projects being supported by USAID. What types of businesses and livelihood projects?

RICCIARDONE: We’re just concluding a very successful one that grew out of a project to support the 1996 agreement with the MNLF. We only got that underway really starting about 2000 and now, we’re just concluding providing livelihood training and other small inputs, capital inputs, to 25,000 former MNLF combatants who are able to retain their identities as MNLF…

BONDOC: What livelihood projects – are these mostly in agriculture?

RICCIARDONE: Sure. Fish farming, seaweed farming, rice, palay. They involve local community-based projects – solar dryers, packing machines - making the people get higher returns out of their crops – giving whole, new livelihoods – and they stay with it.

BONDOC: Where are these? In western Mindanao or even in central?

RICCIARDONE: On the mainland and all the way to Tawi-Tawi, Basilan, Sulu and the mainland of Mindanao as well. It’s a fantastically successful program. It’s just about concluded and we’re seeing if we can replicate it in some ways. For example there were some who opted not to participate – the followers of Nur Misuari – if those fighters are interested in making a living, in a more promising way, we’re looking at ways of expanding the program to include them. Now the MILF people have noticed this – and if there are people who are sick of blowing things up and killing each other and would like to raise crops and educate their kids and get television in their houses and so forth- washing machines and an outboard motor for their boats – we can help with that.

BONDOC: And education for their children, most important.

RICCIARDONE: Quality education in schools that have computers. We can help with all that, but we can’t do it in communities where there are bombers. Where aid workers are threatened with kidnapping or being killed. It’s simply not possible.

BONDOC: Now, in terms of U.S. military aid, what are we looking at this year?

RICCIARDONE: Well, military assistance comes in several forms. The big thing, which is actually exciting and doesn’t get as much coverage here as it should, is the Philippine Defense Reform. In terms of legacies from the Arroyo administration, I would say, and with President Bush working together, there is a thorough attempt to do all the nitty gritty mundane things that will increase the capabilities of the Armed Forces of the Philippines -- that would help make it harder for corrupt officers to subvert the system and cheat the soldiers of their equipment and of their training. So, it’s a systemic overhaul of the Armed Forces of the Philippines, and it’s being led by President Arroyo, Gen. Abu, and Secretary Cruz with Philippine Government money, modernization-fund money, backed by U.S. cash money, and then U.S. training, and some equipment. So, it goes beyond the helicopters that always make the headlines. It’s helping to make financial systems solid and transparent. Instead of moving cash around in bags which could easily go astray, we computerize financial systems, logistics systems to make sure that the soldiers in the field get their weapons, ammunition, boots, tents, uniforms, transportation, training – to make sure that you train someone who is actually going to a unit, and that he is actually going to use the training. Personnel assignments, so you know where your people are.

BONDOC: I suppose these are observations made by the U.S. side from the Balikatan joint exercises?

RICCIARDONE: They’re made jointly. The United States really has no grounds to dictate to another friendly ally what it should do. But we do have expertise, and we share it, and people can choose from a menu of what they think is important for them. That’s true whether in development assistance on the civilian side, or the military side where our soldiers work together. Your soldiers see what we do, we see what they do, we’re friends, and we compare notes, we learn from the Filipinos, the Filipinos learn from us. That’s what partnership is all about.

BONDOC: Well, talking about corruption in the military. Has the Philippine side requested your Government to assist in the investigation of any other General aside from Carlos Garcia?

RICCIARDONE: We’re always very open in the information that we provide whenever there is involvement of the U.S. in a case, like the travel of individuals to the U.S., or their bank accounts in the U.S., or their properties in the U.S. We do that through various channels, whether through law enforcement channels or through the military ones. We did provide some critical information in the Garcia case. I’m reluctant… In our culture and tradition and system, public officials do not comment on specific cases that are before the courts, lest we make it harder for the prosecution to succeed. I can assure you that we are cooperating with your Government, both on the military side and the civilian side, in providing all the information we can in corruption cases.

BONDOC: So, has the Philippine Government made any request for any other General, the investigation of any other General?

RICCIARDONE: You know, I couldn’t say. I would say that we’re in very close contact on the military side and the civilian side. We are encouraged to see both the Ombudsman on the civilian side, and Gen. Abu and Secretary Cruz on the military side, really pull out all the stops to go after corruption in the military, and we expect…We hope and expect, and are confident that the ongoing cases will be vigorously investigated, and for something of a breakthrough -- that people would be prosecuted, and if people are found guilty, that they would ultimately be punished in an exemplary fashion.

BONDOC: I understand that you are doing this not only to corrupt Asian officials but to corrupt Latin American officials as well who seem to be using the United States as the money laundering capital?

RICCIARDONE: Well, yes. But you know, this is a human problem. It is also an American one. We, our Senate has had a rigorous set of hearings late last year on the Boeing case, where our Senators found a sweetheart deal -- where they found too much money was paid for the leasing of aerial refuel tankers. So, this isn’t unique to other countries with the Americans being clean. It’s something we -- any democracy has to rigorously police itself. We’re doing that. Hardly a week goes by that some big-time CEO isn’t under investigation, and on trial in the United States, and it even happens, I am sad to say, within our Government. The difference is, we investigate and we actually prosecute. And there are penalties when people are found guilty of using public office for private gain. I’ve spoken about this with President Arroyo. I am convinced that she means business. It’s a central feature of the Millennium Challenge Initiative. And by the way, in ten days we’re going to have an important visit by people from our new Millennium Challenge Corporation. They will be consulting with the Arroyo administration across the board to see how we can support your initiative -- not our policy -- your Government’s policies to strengthen the system against corruption, to increase transparency, to punish the guilty.

BONDOC: Mr. Ambassador, my partner Dick wants to ask some questions also.

SINCHANCO: Good morning Mr. Ambassador. Are there any other special focus of assistance regarding the campaign against terrorism?

RICCIARDONE: Well, yes. We go across the board, and we see it as a comprehensive thing. You know, the news media -- with respect, naturally tend to focus on that which is sexy and violent, and…You know, “if it bleeds, it leads,” is a slogan in American news business.

SINCHANCO: And they also have a penchant for blowing things up.

RICCIARDONE: (Laughter) Well, yes, that can happen. So, very often people like to focus on troop movements, for example, or where our American training exercises will take place, going back to Jarius’ original question. And that’s important. The military part is important, but also law enforcement, working with the police is important. Intelligence sharing is important. Anti-money laundering, sharing information, and prosecuting people who move money illegally is important, and even beyond that. President Arroyo has made it clear that terrorism, and for that matter, any other forms of criminality happen in a context, and that context is poverty and underdevelopment. That is not to say that poverty causes terrorism. It doesn’t. Not the poor people. Lots of poor people are not terrorists. But where there is poverty, lack of economic opportunity, people can be easily led astray. They can be taught hate. They can be taught ignorance. They can be taught violence.
And therefore we should address the problems of underdevelopment and poverty. President Arroyo is doing that. We’re doing that with particular emphasis in Mindanao, because that’s the poorest part of the country. So, when you talk about the global war on terrorism, we often think of it in terms of the harder edge stuff that gets the headlines and photographs. You know, the Army, the intelligence operations. But the softer stuff also matters -- the slogging work of educating children, giving teachers classrooms and tools, giving livelihood assistance so that we won’t make people dependent on handouts, but will unleash them to grow their own businesses. There are remarkable success stories happening in Mindanao. Datu Paglas is becoming world famous for some of the work he has done down there. You have Governor Ben Loong in Jolo, whom I visited during the Islamic holiday. There are good things happening in this country, and it’s exciting for us Americans who have a small ringside seat to be supporting local leaders who are doing great things.

BONDOC: A couple of more questions Mr. Ambassador. We know you’re the Iraq expert. Your thoughts on the upcoming elections on January 30?

RICCIARDONE: My thought is that it’s vital that elections succeed. I am confident that from what I read, from my knowledge from so many Iraqis that the elections will take place.

BONDOC: That’s sure to take place at the end of the month? But there are some groups that seem to not want that to happen, and that’s the reason for all the bombings that’s going on?

RICCIARDONE: Yes, there are people who desperately don’t want it to happen, and they’re threatening their fellow citizens, and they will prevent people from going to the polls in certain areas. I am going to say that in the majority of the country, certainly in the Kurdish north, and in most of the south, and even parts of the center, the elections should go on because the Iraqis are basically living to do it. They’re committed to this. Unfortunately in the center, the conditions are the most unsettled, and we have to see how things turn out. But I expect that elections will take place and when they do, most of the country will find it has taken another step towards constructing its own very strong, very legitimate, widely recognized and accepted government.

BONDOC: What voter turn out are the Iraqi officials expecting? Is it something like 80%?

RICCIARDONE: You know, I honestly don’t know. It’s hard. These are the first elections in that country in over four decades, and even in peaceful circumstances, organizing something like that where you haven’t had voter lists or the tradition of how to do it, and how to protect against fraud, it would be hard enough. But with the insurgency and the terrorist violence and people actively working to subvert it, it’s going to be even harder. So, we’re going to have to see how it turns out. But you know, it’s not the end. Even if they’re in the maximum successful end of the spectrum, it’s only one step in a long process. This election is to yield a legislature which is supposed to work on a constitution, which is supposed to go to a referendum around September of this year. So yet another electoral exercise this year, and then that referendum is supposed to ratify a constitution that is supposed to yield a permanent government which is to be elected in December of this year. So, we’re talking about a lot of democratic activities in a country that doesn’t have a democratic tradition, all compressed into one year. It will be an exciting year in Iraq.

BONDOC: Are you going home to Washington for President Bush’s inaugural next week?

RICCIARDONE: No, I’ll be watching it from here along with Filipinos. I have – in a way this has become home. I’m coming up on my third anniversary. I love it here. My family has just come for our third Christmas in this wonderful country. We’ll be watching from here.

BONDOC: Okay, thank you very much for your time.

RICCIARDONE: My pleasure. Thank you.

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